[Nick Redding] If you like history and the outdoors, then you might be interested to hear from this week’s guest, Liz Shatto. As the executive director of the Heart of the Civil War Heritage Area, Liz is here to share with us exactly what it means to be a heritage area here in the state of Maryland. Between school trips and crafting your own experience on a geocache trail, Liz has a lot of ground to cover. This is PreserveCast.

From Preservation Maryland Studios in the historic podcast district of Baltimore, this is PreserveCast!

[Nick Redding] This is Nick Redding and you’re listening to PreserveCast. Today, we are joined by Liz Shatto from the Heart of the Civil War Heritage Area, which covers a three-county area here in the state of Maryland. And we’re going to be talking all things Civil War, heritage areas, heritage tourism, and the Battle of Antietam, and beyond. Liz, it’s great to have you here today. Thanks for joining us at PreserveCast.

[Liz Shatto] Thanks, Nick, happy to be here.

[NR] So I wanted to kind of jump into this by asking you a question that we ask most people who come here, which is sort of a loaded question because I know your background, which is how did you get into heritage tourism? And it wasn’t really a direct route for you, is that right?

[LS] Not exactly. You know, I did grow up in Frederick. So I grew up immersed in the beautiful, natural, and historical resources there. And I was fortunate enough to have plenty of people, besides my own family  people like Girl Scout leaders and the Great Outdoor School we used to have in Frederick – that really ignited my interest in history. Academically, I pursued art history, and I had a career as an art museum curator before I returned to my hometown in Frederick. And that’s where it made sense to really focus more on historical resources, and I ended up getting attached to the Tourism Council of Frederick County and working with a consortium of museums and historic sites there. So I really came at it from a start professionally in the art world, but I was always in art museums that were old art museums, The Corcoran Gallery of Art, founded in 1869, I spent a decade with the Telfair Academy in Savannah, Georgia, the oldest art museum in the southeast, that one founded in 1875. They were always in historic buildings in historic districts. So it didn’t seem like a huge change when I left most of the art aspect behind and focused more on history and the rich historic districts.

[NR] Right. So you went from curating to try and, I guess, curating an entire area and getting people to come and visit that area.

[LS] That’s a really good way to describe it. And also, in a way, my first forays, when I returned back to Frederick as a professional, I was curating the museums and the historic sites there and applying more of my museum know-how to that. But, yeah, I hadn’t quite thought of it that way. But I think you might be right. I was sort of curating a whole region.

[NR] Yeah. Exactly. That was your exhibit case. So let’s talk about what you do now, though. I mean, heritage area sounds sort of like a nebulous thing. And in Maryland, we have state heritage areas. So when a lot of people think of heritage areas, who work in preservation, they probably think of the national program. But here in Maryland, we have a really phenomenal state program. So maybe you could take us from the top, down. What is a heritage area in Maryland? And then what exactly is your heritage area all about?

[LS] Sure. I think trying to define a heritage area is one of the hardest things I ever do. I’m not positive that I’ve conquered that elevator speech, but I think I’m going to start to use the slogan that Frederick County has taken up, in a way, an adaptation on that. Because I think that we can say that heritage areas leverage our rich history in the state for assuring a bright future for our community.

Heritage areas are places that share a distinctive sense of place in their historic districts, in their natural resources, in their cultural resources, and they’re interested in how these contribute to the economic well-being of the places where they exist. The Maryland Heritage Areas Authority has certified thirteen heritage areas – state heritage areas. But each heritage area decided what it wanted to be, what the interpretive themes would be, how it would be governed and managed, what the boundaries of the heritage area would be. So, for me, in the heart of the Civil War – and I think it’s accurate to say we probably have the most focused thematic approach in our heritage area, of the thirteen. Our heritage area includes portions of Carroll, Frederick, and Washington Counties and we are an independent, non-profit organization.

That is true of most of the Maryland Heritage Areas but there are a couple of variations on that theme. Because we are certified through the state program, we’re able to bring benefits to our heritage area that come through the state. So the non-profits and the government units within my heritage area can tap grants and tax credits and low-interest loans and also take advantage of things like technical assistance and promotional opportunities that we can provide through our heritage area.

[NR] So what does that mean on a day-to-day basis? Give us a sense for what it is like to be a heritage area director. I mean, what are some of the various things that you would go out and do, beyond going and interviewing on a podcast?

[LS] Well, I always think that our first job is to help empower and equip our partners, the nonprofits and the government units of a wide variety. A lot of people think, “Oh, you only are interested in Civil War sites and museums.” But honestly we’re interested – we are interested in museums and historic sites. We’re interested in arts organizations and main street organizations, in municipalities, in park lands – all variety of place-based organizations that help deliver a superior visitor experience.

A lot of times I will say that the program of the heritage area is delivered by our partners and so we want to make sure that they’ve got what they need to enhance and deliver that product to the visitor and to be the best that they can be. So that might be participating on advisory committees for special projects, taking part in some kind of review or public comment for a development project, something that impacts preservation. It does involve working with folks as they develop grant applications. It may go forward to the Maryland Heritage Areas program, but we’re also always on the lookout for how do we help our partners find other sources of funding and places they might turn to for matching funds for Maryland Heritage Area grants? That’s the beauty of what we do. It is so diverse and you really never know quite what the day might bring.

[NR] Yeah. And you’ve got a big footprint, too. I mean, of the heritage areas, I don’t know if you’re the largest but you’ re a pretty big one and span a big area. It’s thematically is a pretty tight focus, but is geographically spread across, for people who aren’t familiar, a good portion of Caroll, Frederick, and Washington County. It’s a huge swath of the center of the state. And I guess within that you focus principally on three battlefields and then everything that kind of connects to that story, is that right? So it would be South Mountain, Antietam, and Monocacy, and then the story’s connected to all of that, like you were just describing?

[LS] Yes, that’s true. We also have a piece of Harper’s Ferry Park.

[NR] Oh, right!

[LS] A good bit of that park falls in the State of Maryland, so they’re very close partners with us. And then there are also other state and national parks, like Catoctin Mountain Park, that aren’t so much battlefields, but they’re still a part of the bigger story. But we don’t limit ourselves to that. We know that the Civil War traveler, they don’t come with a single focus interest. We want to make sure that we’re helping deliver the diverse kinds of visitor experiences that might include shopping, and dining, and outdoor recreation. And, in fact, in our heritage area, so many things you do actually we can tie directly to one of our Civil War themes as well.

[NR] Right. And I think that’s a big point for preservationists is that it’s not just about preserving a place, it’s about making it a vibrant place; and really, that’s where heritage tourism fits into this. And I think that that’s, speaking as a preservationist here in Maryland, that’s why it’s so wonderful to have the heritage area, is because they’re out there making that case every single day that preserving these places not only makes sense because it happens to be a good thing to do, but it also makes sense to our economies. And you guys are working on trying to update some figures and document that as well right now in Maryland, too. Is that right?

[LS] Absolutely. I work with our Coalition of Heritage Areas, all of the thirteen Heritage Area directors together, and are advocating for and expect to see some real analysis of the economic benefit that we bring to the state. A formal study was last done in 2003, I think it was.

[NR] Yeah, so it’s time.

[LS] So it is time. And we know we had great figures in 2003. And we extrapolate and can make some arguments about our impact today, but we really look forward to engaging in a valid study that will give us some new figures to cite.

[NR] Yeah, because you want to be able to get in front of elected officials and really make the case because we know that tourism is not an insignificant force in Maryland’s economy. Then heritage tourism, which is a component of that, is a powerful driver, particularly in places like Frederick –

[LS] Absolutely.

[NR] – where you and I both live. So what are some things that you guys are working on? Specific initiatives that you would want to tell us about that the Heart of the Civil War Heritage Area is working on? Obviously, you’re doing grants, and you’re doing all of this good work, and supporting your partners, but you do have your own initiatives as well. And there’s a couple of them I know you wanted to mention.

[LS] One of the focuses for us right now is an education initiative, our Preservation Education Initiative. In all aspects of what we do we argue that the Heart of the Civil War is a great base camp for exploring our Civil War heritage here in the state of Maryland, but also for visiting places like Gettysburg, and Manassas, and the nation’s capital, or the city of Baltimore. We know we’re a great base camp and right now we’re taking that notion to the student group tour market because we know we are an excellent base camp for the student groups that are coming in big numbers already. But they’re taking in the nation’s capital, and they’re often, in that same visit, going to Gettysburg, which is great.

[NR] And it’s very close, too. I mean, for someone who’s listening not from Maryland, the distance between Frederick and Gettysburg is –

[LS] You know, it depends on exactly where you are –

[NR] And how fast you’re going, I guess.

[LS] Right, and how fast you’re going [laughter]. But maybe forty minutes in a car.

[NR] Yeah, so we’re talking really close.

[LS] And if you happen to be staying in the northern part of the county or perhaps in Westminster, also in my heritage area, that time distance is even smaller. We’re working to make the case that those end-of-year class trips at the end of eighth grade, at the end of twelfth grade, those kinds of things, we think they can stay in our heritage area. They can stay more economically. They can do the nation’s capital. They can go to Gettysburg. They can have a really rich and varied experience right where we are. They’re in a place where they can get out and hike or paddle and have that kind of outdoor fitness component –

[NR] So how do you make that happen, though? I mean, other than – do you just go online and tell them about what great resources you have? Do you meet with the person who kind of oversees all of this? Because I think what you’re trying to do is great for Civil War, but say there’s someone in another central location but they happen to be in Oklahoma listening to this. How are you trying to actually strategically get these people to do this great thing? I mean, you’ve got all the resources, everything’s perfect, but how do you make the case?

[LS] Well, we do have a strategy here and it’s one that we know we have to be ready to be in it for the long haul because we’re also changing cultural patterns. The tour operators that are bringing these groups out here have got patterns that work for them and we’re asking them to think a little differently about something they may not perceive as being an issue. So part of our strategy has been to get in front of the teachers themselves. We recently launched an online education portal that includes a couple of tracks. One is “In the Classroom.” And for that, we have developed eleven nationally-linked to standards lesson plans that address thematic topics that can be very flexible for teachers really of any discipline and in any location to do in their classroom. It could make a perfect post-visit activity but even for teachers that are never going to get out here, they can take those activities, they can do them in the classroom, and they can adapt extensions in their own communities to use.

[NR] And then are you using analytics to track if that’s being used? How do you know? Is it anecdotal or –

[LS] We have an online discussion board. That is one of the ways that we think is going to be the best opportunity for real feedback. And we do some analytics but we’re also relatively new in this so we don’t quite have a lot of background yet.

[NR] So just so that we know, if someone wanted to see this, what you’re describing, where would they find this?

[LS] At our website, I will say, in addition to the “In the Classroom” piece, because we know teachers have to be able to argue anything they do in terms of how they’re meeting their standards and how they’re spending their instructional time, but we also have “Outside the Classroom.” And this is where we have sample itineraries, and we have travel planning assistance, and in that we’ve also got some funds that are helping us with marketing directly to tour operators, trip planners –

[NR] Okay.

[LS] – and we’ve begun to participate in the Student Youth Travel Association, which is an opportunity to actually have appointments with tour operators who then, we hope – it’s kind of a speed dating situation. But we hope that we’ll have sparked that interest so they’ll begin to look at –

[NR] So this is a serious strategic – we’re talking the serious business of heritage tourism right now.

[LS] Absolutely. It’s serious and as they say, “We know it’s going to be a while. It takes a couple of years once you begin to go to the market to begin to see the fruits of your labors.” The Dell Plains’ newest initiative with us now that we’re out there, we’ve got our portal live, we’re starting to work with some of our smaller sites on something we call Museum Education Intensives. And this is where – we know our big battlefields and places like the National Museum of Civil War Medicine are ready to go with outstanding experiences, and many of our small sites are too. But we were able to bring in some coaching for six of our smaller organizations to help them be specifically ready for our sweet spot, which we think is middle school, probably eighth grade social studies students. That’s kind of our target spot. We’ve built in a lot of flexibility because we want students of all grade levels and all disciplines to be able to come and enjoy this, but we’ve got a few sites that we’re now coaching into developing some program for that specific audience.

[NR] Yeah. So adding some capacity to your partners, which –

[LS] Absolutely, capacity building.

[NR] – goes back to what you initially said about what it is that heritage areas do best. So we are going to take a quick break here but when we come back, I want to talk to Liz about one of the other initiatives that she mentioned, which is a pretty cool way of getting people out into the field and finding things in the heritage area. So we’ll talk about that and what people can expect in terms of how we market our battlefields and get people out to visit them now that we’re beyond the 150th anniversary, and what’s next for the heritage area. And we’ll do all of that when we come back on this episode of PreserveCast.

And now it’s time for a Preservation Explanation

[Stephen Israel] Soon, you’ll get to hear Liz and Nick talk about an exciting partnership that the Heart of the Civil War Heritage Area has set up to create geocache sites. If you’re unfamiliar, geocaching is an activity where hikers and other outdoorsy folks use GPS technology to locate small weatherproof boxes, or caches, sign the logbook inside the cache, and sometimes leave their own tokens and nicknacks for future geocachers. You’ll hear plenty more about geocaching later on from Liz and Nick. But even if you’re an experienced geocacher, you might be surprised to hear that activities like this did not begin and end with GPS technology.

In fact, people have been recreating with log books and weatherproof containers since the nineteenth century. And this all got its start in that sunniest and most outdoorsy of countries, England. Specifically in Dartmoor, a large moorland area in the southwest of England that is now one of the United Kingdom’s national parks. You see, sometime before 1854, a well-known guide named James Perrott who made his living showing Victorian era nature lovers around the forest, streams, and shrub-covered moors of Dartmoor, decided to leave a bottle by Cranmere Pool, a particularly challenging area to reach by foot. Perrott left his own calling card in the bottle and shared his idea with visitors and locals alike that anyone who is capable of finding this hidden container should leave their own calling card to mark their achievement.

In the first few years, very few succeeded in finding this single, obscure spot. But Perrott talked to a lot of people in his occupation as a guide. And by 1888, a newer generation of adventurers decided to switch Perrott’s bottle up for a tin box and visitors began leaving self-addressed postcards instead of calling cards. The idea there being that whoever found the box next should send the letter they found when they got home.

Around that time, a second box was established atop Belstone Tor and the practice of letterboxing, as it eventually became to be known, garnered the attention of another expert on Dartmoor, William Crossing. Crossing was an early member of the Dartmoor Preservation Association, one of the UK’s first groups concerned with the preservation of both the environment and man-made structures. In 1909, he wrote a book called The Guide to Dartmoor. In his book, he chronicled the history of Perrott’s calling card game and significantly increased the number of people in on the challenge. And in 1938, the third official letterbox was built at Ducks Pool in Dartmoor and to this day doubles as a memorial for William Crossing. As you can tell, the build up was slow, over 100 years until the third box. But the growth turned out to be exponential. As the years passed, people began creating their own letterboxes throughout Dartmoor, taking out ads in newspapers and magazines to announce their challenge to the world. By 1976, there were fifteen known boxes. In a few years, that grew to thousands throughout the UK and beyond. I could keep going, but I feel like I’ve done enough rambling. I’m going to try to do some hiking instead and let you guys get back to PreserveCast.

Do you have questions? We may have answers. If at any point during this podcast, you thought of a question that you have for us or maybe one of our guests, we’d love to hear about it. You can send an e-mail to and we’ll try and answer it right here on the air on the next episode of PreserveCast.

[NR] This is Nick Redding and you’re listening to PreserveCast. We’re joined today by Liz Shatto of the Heart of the Civil War Heritage Area, which covers a three-county area in the center of Maryland and focuses thematically on the Civil War heritage and history of the Old Line State. And when we took our break, Liz had just wrapped up telling us all about their pretty exciting and really strategic preservation education initiative trying to get people to start their Civil War exploration, whether that be to Gettysburg or the nation’s capital and beyond, but basing their tours and adventure in her heritage area. But there was another initiative that we had talked about previously that we thought would be a cool one to talk about here that you guys are working on. What’s that one?

[LS] Well, in October, we were excited to launch the Heart of the Civil War GeoTrail. And this is like a scavenger hunt or a treasure hunt and it’s something that takes advantage of GPS systems. They go to, they set up an account, it doesn’t cost them anything, and they can download the coordinates that help them to find the caches that we’ve dispersed throughout our three-county area. Also, while they’re online, they get essays about the history of the places that they’re going to be visiting as they hunt for these caches. The caches, in our case, we have sixteen of them. We planned on fifteen, we put a little bonus in there. And at each location there’s a little hidden treasure for folks to discover. They log in that they’re been there, they collect a code word, and they fill out a passport. And folks that successfully find at least thirteen of the caches, which in our case does require them to visit all three of our counties, they can turn that in and receive a little prize that we’re offering. And we’ve learned that these things are highly sought after so –

[NR] Okay, what is the prize? Are we allowed to know, or is that a secret, too?

[LS] Oh, sure. You can know.

[NR] Oh, okay.

[LS] The prize is – right now the prize that they earn is a pathtag, which is a small special little coin that is a collectible among geocachers. The first 200, actually, qualified to receive a geocoin, which is an even bigger deal. And all of the initial 200 geocoins have been given away.

[NR] So 200 went pretty quick then, it sounds like.

[LS] Oh, it went very quickly, and we do have more coins now. But now the coin is something they can purchase, and the free prize is the pathtag.

[NR] So how many people have done this? Do you have numbers on that?

[LS] We know that we have – I would say we probably have between 300-400. I don’t have the current number right now. We launched it –

[NR] But that’s a lot!

[LS] Right. We launched it in October and so, of course, we saw a little bit of a slowdown in the coldest of the winter months. Not that they were that cold this year but –

[NR] Right.

[LS] But we also expect it to pickup right about now, as spring is coming.

[NR] So have you done it yourself? Have you gone out and found something?

[LS] I haven’t done it myself. It’s a date I’m planning with my son.

[NR] Okay. I was going to say, I’ve never done this either. So maybe since I live in the Heritage Area, maybe I should go and find one. Maybe there’s one where I live, who knows?

[LS] Well, you never know.

[NR] You never know.

[LS] There might be. There might be. The other nice thing about this is when they turn in their passports with their log that shows us where they found the cache, and they found a little code word at the cache that proves they found it, we ask them, “Where did you spend money during your day? Did you stay in a hotel? Did you stop and have a bite to eat?” It helps us capture some of that economic activity, which is great.

And the other thing that we really didn’t understand about this audience, we love geocachers, and it’s because they love doing this kind of thing and they are always sharing comments about their experiences. And we’ve heard so much from people who have said, “Wow.” Either they’re locals and they say, “I drove past this site daily for so many years and I never stopped. I’m so glad this was the impetus for me to go in and explore.” Or maybe it’s for somebody who’s planned a vacation around coming to this area and the Geotrail’s one more fun thing to do while they’re here. And we know some people like to challenge themselves to get it all done in one day, which is a very full day, but some might do it sporadically. So there may be some folks who’ve done a few and are going to pick up a few more this spring, but it’s been – we are very happy with the turnout.

I should mention that the funding that’s allowed this to happen has come from the Rural Maryland Council and from the CVB in Washington County, which was really inspired by an earlier event a couple of years ago, GeoWoodstock, which is a huge gathering of geocachers from all over the country and they had about 5000 people come into the community for that and that was really the impetus for us deciding we wanted to develop one that was specific to the heart of the Civil War. We partnered with the Maryland Geocaching Society, specifically Mark Neuberger, who was stepping down as president at about that time and he was ready to take on a project. So we worked with Mark, who has taken on a lot of the technical aspect of this because it really was a whole new world for myself and Auni Gelles, who took a lot of project management for this as her assistant director. And the locations, I have to be careful not to give too many of them away, but they’re some of the big sights but they’re also lesser known places.

[NR] So were you able to get them on national parks?

[LS] We do have some that pertain to some of our national parks.

[NR] Was that difficult?

[LS] We are starting to see more openness about doing that and partly because the Maryland Geocaching Society had already done some work along the John Smith Trail and they’d begun to make some relationships there. And, of course, we have great relationships with the national parks and our heritage area. But it’s not all national parks, it’s also some lesser known places.

[NR] Well you have to update – will you have to keep moving things around to keep it fresh? Are you going to have to –

[LS] You know, I think we’ve got some time before we have to do that. Our Maryland Geocaching Society partners actually monitor the caches for us and make sure that they are up-to-date, that they’re in good shape. The community is very good about letting people know if there’s been some damage or something’s been lost, so they’re very good. We haven’t had much to deal with but they’re on top of it. And we can see maybe down the road, we’ll get to the point where we need to change it up a little bit but I think we’ve got some time before that becomes a part of what we’re working on.

[NR] That’s pretty cool. So looking here broadly, we just went through – obviously, you’re intimately familiar with it, maybe not every listener is. But we just have concluded a few years back here, the 150th anniversary of the American Civil War, which meant a big deal to your heritage area. Obviously, you had really five years of events and really great programming throughout all of that period and so there was a lot of attention, a lot of focus both here in the state and beyond on that. What happens now with Civil War battlefields now that we’re beyond the big anniversary? I mean, obviously, you continue to promote and market, but are we seeing a transition now? Is there a different focus? What happens to battlefield tourism and heritage tourism beyond the sesquicentennial?

[LS] Well, I can tell you that one of the things that’s been great to see is that in Maryland, the battlefields that I work with, we’ve continued to see growth in visitation. Monocacy Battlefield, in particular, has had just a huge exponential growth every year since the 150th year, which for them was in 2014. That’s amazing.

[NR] So it wasn’t a peak? It wasn’t an anomaly?

[LS] No, absolutely. It wasn’t and I think part of it – we knew going into it that we might experience something that some have called the splash effect. We raised a lot of awareness but not everybody necessarily came that year, but we were on their radar screens. So some of it may be that but I do think that people have begun to discover new ways of experiencing the battlefields and the battlefields used the 150th as a way to experiment a little themselves about new ways to engage folks. The Heritage Area’s program was able to fund some visitor experience enhancements at both Antietam and at Monocacy. And we’ve seen, for example, at Monocacy, they used some of the historic domestic structures for public engagement during the sesquicentennial that I don’t think they’d ever really done before. Now they’re continuing to do that and some of the barns there have now become hubs for exciting kinds of public programming.

And we have it both Antietam and at Monocacy now, some planning that’s going into thinking more about how the visitors access different places in the park. What’s the circulation for visitors going to be at Antietam, which hasn’t been looked at in really a long time, and that battlefield has grown, and there’s so much more preserved land associated with the battlefield. So I think we’re going to see new ways and patterns for visitors to engage with the battlefields. I personally am excited about looking at things like Reconstruction and Emancipation issues and really diversifying the themes that we’re offering up to visitors, as well.

[NR] Yeah, and in one of our previous episodes here, we had on the folks from Tolson’s Chapel, which falls within your heritage area, which is sort of a callback to a previous episode here. But that was a Freedmen’s Bureau school in Sharpsburg, Maryland, very close to the Antietam Battlefield, and we kind of made the case that that’s sort of the next step or the conclusion of the Antietam story. You know, the Emancipation Proclamation comes, and then what does that mean several years later to free African-Americans in Maryland? So yeah, I think that that’s pretty compelling.

[LS] It’s a beautiful partnership with Antietam and Tolson’s, and yes, it really helps tell the whole human drama.

[NR] Right. And I think the other takeaway that I’m hearing, too, that goes beyond just the Heart of the Civil War Heritage Area, but really for any historic site that’s looking at a big anniversary coming up is, don’t just look at it as, “Okay, we’re going to commemorate” – or if it’s a fun thing – “celebrate this particular anniversary.” You should look at it as an opportunity to sort of have this splash effect, that you can raise your profile by recognizing this date and perhaps have a bigger, more positive effect in the long run, which I’m not sure everyone looked at the sesquicentennial as potentially having that impact. But it sounds, from your experience on the ground there in the Heart of the Civil War that that’s sort of the case.

[LS] Absolutely. Absolutely.

[NR] That’s great. So before anyone leaves PreserveCast, we ask them the most difficult question, which is your favorite historic structure. Since you’re a Maryland preservationist, you can either pick here from Maryland or beyond, but we would love to know if you have a favorite historic building. Or, I guess, in your case, a favorite historic place. But we’ll throw that out to you. It’s a tough question.

[LS] It is a tough question. It’s like asking me to choose between my children. I did think about this a little bit. I’ve listened to these podcasts, I knew this question was coming. I think I’m going to have to name the place that has been part of my life since childhood. And it’s a place where the walls, I think, are infused with the prayers and the songs and the inspiration of generations, and that’s All Saints’ Episcopal Church on Church Street in downtown Frederick. It’s been a part of my life forever. Probably just being in that historic structure regularly began to breed this interest in history early on. It’s a beautiful structure, and it is one of Frederick’s spires. Beautifully restored recently, another good podcast option for you. And it’s a place that continues to be a vital part of the community. And it’s certainly still a vital part of my life, so I think I’d have to name All Saints.

[NR] Yeah, I think that’s a great example. And also you sort of get that sense of your place in history when you go there, right?

[LS] Exactly.

[NR] The people who went there before you are part of history, and now you, too, will be a part of history. So that’s a compelling answer. It’s a good one. That might be maybe one of the best we’ve gotten so far. Good job, Liz. Well, it’s been a pleasure to have you on and to talk about heritage tourism and get a sense for all the great work that you and your colleagues around the state, by extension, are doing with heritage tourism. If someone wanted to get in touch with you or they want to learn more about the Heart of the Civil War, why don’t you let them know how they can do that?

[LS] A great place to start is our website,, and I’d be happy to take calls at 301-600-4042.

[NR] Alright, sounds great. Well, Liz, thank you for all the work that you’re doing to preserve this important aspect of Maryland and, really, national history; and thanks for joining us here today on PreserveCast.

[LS] Thanks so much.


You don’t need to open a history book to find us. Available online from iTunes and their Google Play Store as well as our website: This is PreserveCast.

This podcast was developed under a grant from the National Center for Preservation Technology and Training, a unit of the National Park Service. Its contents are the sole responsibility of Preservation Maryland and the Maryland Milestones Heritage Area and do not necessarily represent the official position or policies of the National Park Service or the National Center for Preservation Technology and Training.

This week’s episode was produced and engineered by Stephen Israel. Our executive producer is Aaron Marcavitch. Our theme music is performed by the band Pretty Gritty. You can learn more about them at their website:, on Facebook, or on Twitter @PG_PrettyGritty.

To learn about Preservation Maryland or this week’s guest visit: While there, you can check out our blog and learn about what’s current in historic preservation. We’re also on Facebook, Instagram, Flickr, and Twitter @PreservationMD. And of course, a very special thank you to our listeners. Keep preserving!